Best video game music forum?

I've been a bit dick with regards to newer VGM, but I basically echo everything Judgement Day has said. I remember playing many games with great music on my NES and SNES, so when discovering VGM came about, I wasn't afraid to really branch out and try new things because I felt like most VGM was good. If anything, I felt cheated when I discovered how many games had never been translated to English and I figured I could at least salvage the music from them by getting the soundtracks. I did good...I discovered SNK, Falcom and the large bodies of work by Square/Konami that were largely left in Japan. I mean, an SNES Final Fantasy that we didn't get here in the US? And I get to listen to music? Awesome! You had the soundteams at Konami/Square/Capcom/Taito/Falcom that were just pumping out awesome stuff. Not so much nowadays.

My thing is, I like game music that sounds gamey. I like chiptunes, melodies, synth rock, Super Nintendo-style orchestrations/rockfests, as well as arranges that are faithful while adding flair or even just grading up the sound effectively. The output of Konami and Falcom during the early to mid 90's more than justified the large amount of time and money I put into acquiring them, know the odds were in my favor of getting something I liked. I don't feel that way in regards to much new VGM. If anything, whenever I see something that might interest me (lets use the new Rockman Arranges as examples), I feel a sense of dread more than anything. Seeing new Final Fantasy soundtracks nowadays basically means what project did they give Ishimoto and/or Mizuta to dump on us THIS time (imagine Dissidia done by the "classic" Square sound team...what could have been). There really aren't any composers I'm outright admiring right now...Souleye and probably Koshiro are the ones that immediately come to mind, and virt somewhat. So it makes me feel like blind purchasing is far less likely to yield ripe fruit.

The one thing that has piqued my interest nowadays has been the influx of chiptunes (or even pseudo-chiptunes) and people recognizing it more as art and not outdated crap. I've just heard so many great "gamey" tunes that actually try to emulate the sound/style of classic chiptunes, that it hits that rare mark of fresh and familiar.

Also add into the fact that production has gone south horribly, with regards to compression, warmth and volume. I've done the rant in another thread, but to summarize: I don't know why VGM albums are being produced like pop records, where they are squashing everything into the midrange and making everything downright harsh to listen to. VGM albums from early to mid 90's are quiet with good dynamics and it's normal to turn them up. They sound amazing and detailed.

I remember looking at the volume level for Xenoblade and I couldn't believe, for that type of music, they would make it that loud. Virt's recent Mighty Switch Force OST is downright sad...every track is up near 99-100db. It should not be anywhere near that (his prior works were just right, as far as listening volume went) and it a huge reason I don't enjoy the music more (the actual music is amazing, I'd gladly pop for a well-mastered version of it). New-school Falcom has zero idea what they're doing, with regards to volume levels and dynamics and it kills 95% of the music outright for me. Just go listen to Mighty Obstacle from Ys VI for the ultimate example. Amazing tune, horrible, horrible production. And has anyone ever noticed, oh say, the Black Mages or Guilty Gear XX and why they sound off? Yup, whoever mastered those albums cranked them and the layers are distorted as hell (although ironically, the Korean GGXX is one of the best mastered albums I own...It sounds amazing and detailed on higher-end equipment) This weighs heavily on any buying decisions I make, because I have to be sure I'm not buying something I don't want to listen to, even if I like the music. I mean, when they say they are going to "master" the classic Megaman music, I am absolutely dreading the results.

The above is something I don't see mentioned in a lot of reviews nowadays. If I had been more aware of the loudness wars when I was actively writing reviews, I would have made certain to state how the album fared in that regard. But it turns out most of my longtime favorites are mastered extremely well and many of the albums that I "should" like more and I can't get into are...well, not. Funny how that worked out.

GoldfishX wrote:

Not so much nowadays.

GoldfishX wrote:

If anything, whenever I see something that might interest me (lets use the new Rockman Arranges as examples), I feel a sense of dread more than anything.

GoldfishX wrote:

...blind purchasing is far less likely to yield ripe fruit.

All of the above, but I bolded the first quote because that's how I view the current state of VGM. It can be the end of almost any sentence starting with how I feel about things, such as:

- Uematsu used to write some of the most gripping VGM I ever heard, but...
- A new Silent Hill soundtrack used to be something I would immediately preorder, but...
- It was easy to go on VGMWorld and stock a cart with some new, random albums that would turn out to be awesome, but...
- A new Final Fantasy soundtrack meant something great, but...

Of course these are just generalizations, but you get the idea. The way the scene is, how readily available the music is, and how expensive it is have all completely changed since back in 2000 when I first started learning about physical game music releases. It's easier for me to listen to something for a few minutes and decide if it's worth a deeper look or not based on all of the albums I've heard over the past twelve years. Back then I may have coughed up $20 to check something out based on a composer/series/recommendation, or decided to preorder the Breath of Fire box just because, but now things just aren't that way. GX's last quote above pretty much sums that up perfectly... it's more like, blind purchasing is far more likely to yield rotten, stinky, fly-infested fruit.

I also feel like VGM is also a lot harder to sell these days, but maybe that's just my experience. I vividly remember a more active trading and selling scene years ago, but now the big sales are few and far between (although Isabela's recent one totally owns all other sales in sheer quality and quantity). You could go online and find a Digicube copy of Tobal No.1 for fairly cheap, or you'd be able to order the PSCN version of Brink of Time for about $20, but now that is completely backward. Either people aren't selling (or have already sold everything like me, hah) or are selling at really high prices. Anyway, now I'm rambling, but the principles I'm most in touch with are the three quoted above. I extensively listen to samples or Youtube videos of music before purchasing anything just because so many things just aren't worth the money these days as they were years ago in my eyes.

avatar! wrote:

Well, I tend to listen to mostly Western game music, but I do have a lot of Japanese music too (hello, Atlus
In my opinion, game music today is just as good as anything "back in the day". It all depends on your taste. So, I would not tell someone to concentrate on the early to mid 90's. I would actually say VGM today is better than it has ever been (or at least as good, with a larger selection). Of course, it again depends on your taste.

While old v new can be debated for another day, if I was still as proactive as I used to be with the game music genre, I wonder if I'd be buying the same amount of soundtracks today as I did 10 years ago. I can't answer that question with confidence, since I don't know what's out there, but my initial answer would be no. I do believe there are some diamonds in the rough, but if I have to search for a winner...well, therein lies the problem. I can't believe I'm about to quote the old adage but "back in my day", the only search involved for a video game soundtrack was the accessibility and not the quality, because you knew it was a given that the soundtrack met or exceeded expectations. It was just a matter if you could get it (through the back of those GameFan mags, comic conventions...you guys know what I'm talking about) and if you had the budget based on the numerous discs that were out there.

Again, I could be wrong...as I stated, I don't buy soundtracks as much, and I believe that's hampered my judgment to contribute an honest opinion of the industry. But I do know that there are a LOT of remixes out there. SQ Chips, which I've coveted as an outstanding CD and made me start collecting again, is essentially a collection of remixes. Could the industry be to the point where it's too dependent on its past and is either:

A) overshadowing the new original quality production that's being sold
B) masking the fact that really good, original BGMs in this day and age are few and far between

This is probably where some help is needed, because I think it's a little of both but can't confirm. Also, is there anyone who started collecting video game music as of 2007 (5 years ago) based on something you heard around that time frame? For me, my first love was ThunderCross 1 and 2, but Final Fantasy got me to start collecting which was essentially between 1989-1994.

Last edited by Judgment Day (Jun 26, 2012)

Smeg wrote:

Judgment Day wrote:

Money's not an issue, but unless you have personalized composed songs, I refuse to pay auto insurance type money for any SINGLE CD.

Man I wish my insurance was that low

Seriously... that's 2 months auto insurance in NJ... with no accidents, no major penalties or major tickets for 8 years and paying on time for the last 10.  The only thing that would get me a cheaper policy would be a sex change.

Zane wrote:

- Uematsu used to write some of the most gripping VGM I ever heard, but...

...then he did the craptacular Last Story. Honestly, seriously, most disappointing soundtrack experience I've had in a long time. Even knowing that new-school Uematsu has been lackluster at best, this was just flat out awful. Made Blue Dragon sound like a masterpiece.

And yeah, the second-hand market is ass right now. If people are serious about moving those CD's, most need to lower their prices. The exchange rate isn't helping matters. I prefer a 3000 yen disc to be $23-$25, not $35-$37. Not much Japanese sellers can do about that markup.

Last edited by GoldfishX (Jun 26, 2012)

jb wrote:

Smeg wrote:

Judgment Day wrote:

Money's not an issue, but unless you have personalized composed songs, I refuse to pay auto insurance type money for any SINGLE CD.

Man I wish my insurance was that low

Seriously... that's 2 months auto insurance in NJ... with no accidents, no major penalties or major tickets for 8 years and paying on time for the last 10.  The only thing that would get me a cheaper policy would be a sex change.

Oh...yeah, that would actually be pretty high for monthly. Still, I'll shut up till after the court date for my latest speeding ticket :x

Chris wrote:

GoldfishX wrote:

Zane wrote:

- Uematsu used to write some of the most gripping VGM I ever heard, but...

...then he did the craptacular Last Story. Honestly, seriously, most disappointing soundtrack experience I've had in a long time. Even knowing that new-school Uematsu has been lackluster at best, this was just flat out awful. Made Blue Dragon sound like a masterpiece.

My problem with the score wasn't its quality, but the fact it didn't seem to be Uematsu at all. It was arranged and sampled throughout by Yoshitaka Suzuki, who has endlessly ripped off Zimmer during his career (sometimes to the point I'd accuse plagiarism).

I felt Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey were more authentically Uematsu -- the arrangers stayed more true to his sound and intentions.

True, but my point still stands...None of three come close to measuring up to classic Uematsu and Last Story is the worst of the lot by far (I haven't heard the others you mentioned). It would be scary for a new VGM fan to pick up one of these soundtracks and have it be his only Uematsu experience.

I guess I'm just interested in the end product. I mean, I love Ishiwatari's compositions, but the people that perform and produce his works need to be shot. Sounds like new school Uematsu is kind of in the same boat. And it's good to know Ishimoto fails as much as a synthesizer operator as much as he fails as a composer. Consistancy is good...

At Otakon 2 years ago, Kikuta was saying how it took him hours to find the right sound out of the SNES for Secret of Mana and it felt like a lot of his work was his own. I feel like nowadays, there's less and less of that hands-on approach. I guess the same can be applied to games and the large development teams.