Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth

Case 4: COMPLETE! Hoping to tackle case 5 today, but we'll see how I fare. As before, I'm just going to white out my entire case 4 commentary. What can I say? I'm a lazy bastard.

Concerning case 4:
I suppose it really isn't unexpected, but I'm glad they've continued offering five cases per game. I was a little worried that they might go back to four seeing as how this was a new spin-off entry. Seems that I had nothing to worry about after all. :3 Overall, I really enjoyed case 4. It added a lot to the story and helped to tighten up the cast a bit. The courtroom setting was fantastic and I think it's one of my favorite locations to date (right up there with the airplane). Perhaps it's just the Ace Attorney nostalgia or maybe something else entirely. All I know is that it worked for me. I was especially fond of the courtroom music. Very reminiscent of past courtrooms pieces (specifically the one from T&T) and it added a lot to the setting.

Moving on, let's talk about characters. Young Kay is adorable! Although I took to her in case 3, I agree with SonicPanda that case 4 was a stronger introduction. That whole seven-year aging thing is rather mysterious, isn't it? I guess there must be quite a few cynics writing for the series. XD Anyway, Kay got a good chance to shine here and we also get to meet up with a couple of new and returning characters: there's Calisto Yew who rubbed me the wrong way right from the get go, Detective Badd who has a rather fitting name and theme, the always dis-likable Manfred von Karma, poor ol' Gumshoe, and a rather young (and dare I say it... cute?) Franziska. Remember how I said that she seems to grow on me each time we meet? Well, I dare say I'm smitten. I've never thought that "cute" and "Franziska" could go in the same sentence... but there you have it! Still a very feisty one though.

This brings me to my next point: this case felt really story heavy. I know that was the point and I loved it, but there were several sequences where I found myself thinking, "Ok, when do I get to play again?" It was kind of surprising! I think SonicPanda's comments about the logic system are a big factor here. There were times where I knew what happened and I wanted to prove it, but the game just wouldn't let me. I had to wait for everyone else to connect the dots and catch up to me. I'll touch on this again later. For now, let's just say that in case 4 the story and characters were great, but the new gameplay hit its first major bump in the road. Not a bad experience mind you; just not what I was expecting after the superior gameplay in cases 1 through 3.

Lastly, case 4 creates almost as many questions as it does answers. This is exactly what I was hoping for and it's done a great job setting up the big finale in case 5. Really looking forward to seeing what became of Badd and Yew. Not to mention the real identity of the Yatagarasu, what Kay is really up to, and how everything ties together with the smuggling ring, Cohdopia, and these two Interpol agents. Some obvious highlights from case 4: interviewing the judge, Gumshoe's first bonus, exploring the courthouse. All the little details were great. Did anyone else examine the fire extinguisher? The not-so-subtle dig at Phoenix from JFA was quite amusing.


And those are my thoughts on case 4! I feel there's a lot more I could say, but it's already long-winded enough. I'm more interested in hearing what other people have to think.


Now, continuing with a topic I brought up in my white text block:

SonicPanda wrote:

If there's a downside to the investigation, it's that it shows the flaws of the Logic gameplay system.

I was thinking about this as well. I really like the logic system and it has its moments, but it does feel a little primitive at the moment. Your comment about Edgeworth having all the fun really struck a chord with me. I don't know what they have planned for the sequel, but expanding the logic system would be great. Maybe some way of integrating it more with the evidence (a la Deduction) would help. Instead of giving us a small handful of logic items that we are forced to combine, players could enter logic mode and experiment with evidence itself; attempting to fuse different items to see if a connection is found. Or, if that's too much work, maybe allow us to combine more than two logic bubbles. That would make it a little more complicated and allow us to feel like we're actually playing Edgeworth (instead of just watching).

On another side note (Ema lust incoming), an idea I'd like to see in future Investigation games would be more than one playable character. We've already got the Attorney games for a monogamous playing experience. Why not give us two characters that we can freely switch between in Investigations? Example: Edgeworth and Ema are at the crime scene. The player takes control of Ema and begins investigating. They collect and analyze evidence using her and her forensic science with Edgeworth offering commentary. Then, after evidence has been collected, they switch to Edgeworth and use Logic / Deduce to fit the pieces together and then question the witness with Ema giving the commentary.

And of course that's just one example. There are many other ways to get a similar effect. They could use different characters (Ema with a new detective character for instance), they could break the gameplay up into stages (Ema and a sidekick collect, then Edgeworth and Gumshoe do their stuff), etc. I just think it's a neat idea that could really help give Investigations its own unique place. It's already off to a great start, so let's keep it rolling!

SonicPanda wrote:

Case 4 certainly does, and what I've played of Case 5 has also done so. But the really crazy thing is the first three cases all take place in a two-day span. TWO DAYS! The mind reels.

As an aside, I'd like to say that one of the most pleasant surprises the game has offered so far is its pacing.

Just want to agree on both counts! I was pretty discouraged that Edgeworth kept getting accused, but your point that everything happens in two days is a big issue too. It's a little more subtle, but definitely hard to believe. As I said before, I understand why they do it that way, but it would be nice if they cut us a break. That feels more like a Phoenix Wright element (constantly flying through everything at a break-neck speed by the seat of his pants). It's fun, but this is Edgeworth! I'd just like it if they kept that to one or two cases instead of three or four, you know?

Anyway, you were right. Cases 4 and 5 do help with the problem, but they don't completely get rid of it. Now we're up to, what? Three days and four cases? I'm losing count. And even in the flashback, the murder took place while Edgeworth was at the court and he was supposed to be replacing the victim. Granted, this time it really was Edgeworth's official case, but it's still similar to what happened in cases 1 through 3. Not a huge complaint, but I just didn't want to let it go. :3

And yes, the pacing in this game with the exception of my comments on case 4 is fantastic! It's surprising how the gameplay really hasn't changed all that much, but everything feels so much more smooth. I think the addition of sprites is one of the contributing factors. It makes the movement and interactions feel so much more natural.

Two-thirds of the way through Case 5. So, so worth it so far. I'm almost giddy.

SonicPanda wrote:

Two-thirds of the way through Case 5. So, so worth it so far. I'm almost giddy.

Boco wrote:

Holy crap. My mind is thoroughly blown.

I want to say that I'm halfway through Case Five, but it's honestly hard to tell at this point.  After the first big reveal, though, I share both of your sentiments: it's all mindblowingly giddy.  Even if the game were to end right here, I would say that it's miles (ooh, pun) ahead of Apollo Justice's limp dick climax. 

(MID-WAY?) CASE FIVE SPOILERS:
The amount of fan service in this case is off the charts.  At this point, the game practically goes out of its way to proclaim itself to be the rightful sequel to Trials and Tribulations.  ....... References to Mask DeMasque, Laurice Deauxnim (heh, Dounim), Psyche Locks, and Larry's and Oldbag's stint with KB Security.  (Interesting tidbit: they refer to Larry's book about Franzy as "Whippity Whip Trip", which was the name that was featured in the English localization of the Japanese Gyakuten Saiban 3 DS version.  Minor changes and dialogue refinements were made for the actual North American release of Trials and Tribulations, and among those changes, the book was retitled "Whip Lash Splash."  I found it funny that they went with the JP GS3 English name instead.)  We also have a hearty helping of references from the first two Phoenix Wright titles, including Global Studios, Missile, the entirety of the Samurai family (Steel and Nickel, the Pink Princess, Jammin' Ninja), the two cases that involved "flying" characters (JFA's Case Three and T&T's Case Five), and Franziska getting shot in JFA's Case Four.  Hah, they even managed to sneak in the good ol' step-ladder/ladder comparison joke.  Excessive?  Perhaps.  But in the scheme of the greater plot, it's never a detriment.  More like delectable condiments on an already delicious Samurai Dog.

The two most amusing bits of the case so far?.... Discovering that Edgeworth has a secret fanboy infatuation with The Steel Samurai, and Lang's innate ability at remembering details of all his subordinates.  The birthday bit .... had me in stitches.

It's easy for me to say I should've seen it coming, but the way the big reveal was pulled off still caught me by surprise.  The sound of the..... ominous heartbeat predating Shih-na's identity was both off-putting and extremely effective.  Lang taking Badd's bullet for Calisto was ridiculously cool, while the idea of the Yatagarasu being a three-member group instead of a single entity is a meaty twist.  With a good number of questions being answered so far.... (Jacques' role, the mystery thief in Case One revealed, the whereabouts of Yew, and who the Yatagarasu really are), I am indeed giddy as a gazelle in wanting to finish this up and see how the rest plays out.

Ramza wrote:

I'm also on case five right now. I assume this is the final case?

Yes, that's correct. It's a pretty lengthy case though. Looking forward to hearing what you think of the big finale.

Just finished case five (and thus the game) about two hours ago.

Loved it.

I'm not going to try to jump in and out of spoiler zone. The entire post from here will be in white.

My least favorite game in the Ace Attorney series was the 2nd game. Why? There are plenty of reasons. It was the least valuable to the Fey plot arc among the original trilogy. But perhaps the reason I disliked it most was because I seriously disliked whip-happy Franziska von Karma.

My dislike of von Karma came to a swift end with this game. Her motives as a human being were plain since the 2nd game: outdo Edgeworth. But I had no sympathy for her and her psychopathic obsession. Not until case 4 of this game, anyway. When you see her at age 13, where she's just trying to get daddy's attention and approval, and he's investing all his effort into grooming Edgeworth ... THERE, you see it.

Also, she has developed as a character by this point, because of what she's been through when up against Phoenix Wright. So she generally acts more "noble," even if she is still whipping people like crazy.

Let's see, what else...

Shih-na. When I first met her in case 3, I just thought she looked like Lady Gaga with that crazy wig. After finishing case 4, it was obvious to me that Yew = Shih-na.

What WASN'T obvious to me was that Yatagarasu was a 3-person team. I suspected that perhaps it was a 2-person team, but I didn't know which two. That it was all three, and that Yew was (quote) "destined to betray everyone from the beginning" -- awesome. Totally awesome.

I loved that this entire game takes place outside the formal courtroom. I loved Gumshoe. I thought Kay was great.

I was happy when cameos remained sparse. Ema Skye and Meekins are good examples. I was a little tired of Oldbag by the end of the case.

I suspected from the start that they would not use Wright himself nor any of the Fays as cameos, and I was right. Couldn't have them stealing the spotlight from the Edgeworth game. Nonetheless, I wouldn't have minded a one-scene-within-one-case cameo from Maya or Pearl.

WHAT ELSE...

Lang was a fantastic rival. As those of us who play these games know, every game gives you a *rival* who butts heads with the protagonist and approaches everything from a different angle, but who ultimately is also good and becomes your ally. For four games, that rival would be another prosecutor.

But in this game, your rival is a kick-ass interpol detective. At the end when he accuses von Karma, I knew that he was just using this as a bait tactic so they could dig up more evidence and pin Alba. It's very similar to a point in the original trilogy where Wright and Edgeworth work together from both angles to take down a suspect/witness (can't remember if that was first or second game).

So yeah, I enjoyed every case, I was pleased with the level of difficulty (only got two game overs), thought the character development was strong ... basically, it blew away my expectations. I really was worried that this game would suck, and it didn't.

I was also 100% okay with the gimmick/novelty stuff from Yomigaeru Gyakuten / Apollo Justice being cut from the game. I don't need to dust for prints or analyze multiple layers of a piece of paper.

Spoiler-free thoughts will go on Gameosaurus.com where I will post my review.

Ramza

OK, let's rock. My gameplay experience at the end was pretty unique - my sister and I actually raced each other through the final parts, leapfrogging over each other and helping one another past our respective roadblocks. In the end, she was quite pleased to beat it exactly one minute before I did, drat her bones. Spoilers come now, and I'm not shy about referencing other spoilers from the series, be ye warned.

As has been said, the fanservice in this case is overwhelming but not unwelcome. In some ways, it's almost a sister story to Bridge to the Turnabout. Edgey was also snarkier than usual ('Vindictive much?', 'No, next decade...Of course now!', and utilizing The Point to tell Larry to 'Go Away!'), which was fun. And even if some pop references started sneaking in, there weren't many, and the Scooby-Doo one was cute. My favorite moment, though, was probably Edgeworth's dawning realization that his autograph came from Larry, and his inability to deal with that.

Breaking Shih-na and the truth about Yatagarasu was immensely satisfying. I live for the meltdown moments in these stories, and her breaking-point reaction was right up there with the series' best. My hypothesis entering the case was waaaay off, though. I'd been guessing that Yew had actually been slain by the gunshot at the end of Case 4 and that Badd had picked up the mantle for his own ends. The truth was much more interesting, and let Badd walk off a badass as opposed to a bad man. He's definitely the game's coolest character, as cool as everyone tells me that petty shmuck Godot was supposed to be.

Lang turned out to be a great character, too - a much better take on the 'friendly rival' idea than Klavier, who was much too nice to be an effective antagonist. I'm a bit surprised they didn't go into more detail on the event that triggered his distrust of prosecutors, but perhaps that ensures his return in the next game.

I wasn't quite as impressed with the ultimate ringleader villain, though. While much better than Kristoph Gavin, he wasn't in the same league as Damon Gant (in fact, in many ways, he is a poor man's Gant) or Dahlia Hawthorne. Make no mistake, he was condescending and persistent as all hell, but his pervasive nervousness and need to escape made him seem far less devious than the ones who stick around, smirk and casually dare you to make them crack. Seeing those and tough characters like them begin to sweat was the fleeting payoff for Herculean efforts. But even Larry - LARRY! - practically had this guy on his knees. At least his 'Ob-JECK-shon' call, as if Sean Connery were trying to imitate Patrick Stewart, was a hoot.

Other passing thoughts:
- they took the awesome out of Franziska's whip-snap, sadly. It's a simple *Wh-PSH - crick* now instead of the more commanding *Wh-PSH - BANG* of JFA and T&T.
- how perfect was it that in an Edgeworth game, the decisive evidence came from Oldbag?
- did anyone else notice that Oldbag's undershirt was laid out like Edgeworth's framed jacket?
- also, did anyone else notice that the Iron Infant had Sal Manella's topknot and Maya's bangs? Maximum creepiness.

Downsides? You knew it was coming - a cornucopia of fanservice, and they can't put Ema in there somewhere? She's a Steel Samurai fan, too! When a forensics guy calls peoples' attention with a 'Hold It!' in the middle of the finale, and you make it some random no-name instead of the established series' forensics expert, you've just plain screwed it up. All told, she got less screen time than Mike friggin' Meekins, and that's just not right. Honestly, if every time they'd simply called for some analysis they instead had her on hand to actually do the analysis in the course of gameplay, I think I could've safely called this my favorite AA game. Investigations, even the speedy ones on display here, simply aren't as fun without Science (we're going to have to agree to disagree on this, Ramza, as well as your distate for my thematic favorite in the series). I hold out the slim hope that the girl-centric Yatagarasu II Kay mentions in the ending will consist of Kay as the Phoenix, Ema as the Maya, and Maggey as the Gumshoe. If Eshiro does that, I'll build a statue of the man. As it is, she seems to have appeared simply so that preview screens with her could be published, ensuring the interest of otherwise disappointed fanboys like myself. Well played, Capcom.

Also, a lot of the green-text clues spelled out too well what you were supposed to present, robbing some of the challenge - what I wouldn't give for another brain-buster like Farewell, My Turnabout. And the business of dumping unnecessary evidence was supposed to simplify things, but only kept me constantly aware that the Samurai Dog was important, instead of focusing on the matter in front of me.

Still, great game, for reasons I've mentioned before; the series hasn't felt so fresh in years. The original PW and JFA are still my favorites, but as with Angela, Edgey comes in at a strong third. Let's do this every year.

...and with Science.

Last edited by SonicPanda (Feb 26, 2010)

Ramza wrote:

WHERE IS THAT in case three? What scene is that? I must go see it! Very cool!

According to Gunloc from Neogaf, "You can only see them...... right after Lance appears for the first time. There will be a chapter checkpoint and then afterwards you can travel back to the entrance and see them from the bridge. After that, they are gone."

And speaking of Case Three, one of them answered my question as to who the possible..... Proto Badger was when Edgeworth and Kay were investigating on their second trip to the Isolation Room. (The one who pops out of the underground passageway, discovering the other costume to be missing, and appears to know Edgeworth.)  Given that he's an employee of Gatewater, and speaking in words such as "Sir" and "Ab-SO-lutely!", the natural assumption is that it's the bellboy from the first game's Case Two.  Damn, of course.

Last edited by Angela (Feb 27, 2010)

It looks like we're getting another dose of Edgeworth before more Apollo: http://www.nintendoeverything.com/49719/

And judging from the scan it looks like Kay is going to be his primary female sidekick again, blast it. Also, I'm guessing that's Will Powers in the knight getup.

Excellent news indeed! I'm still expecting Apollo Justice 2 (and not patiently I might add), but this is still something wonderful to look forward to. I like the idea of a new chess-themed game mechanic. Sounds just like Edgeworth and could help round out some of the mechanics from the first AA:I. Glad to see Kay coming back as I support steady sidekicks and would definitely like to see her get developed a bit more.

Although I certainly won't hold my breath, it would be nice to see Emma get a larger part (more forensic science, please?). Not sure why I even bother though. It ain't gonna happen. >_<

Also, music team speculations? I was very, very happy with the Iwadare / Yamada team and I'm hoping they return. Not sure who I would pick to replace them at the moment...

Angela wrote:

Boco wrote:

Also, music team speculations? I was very, very happy with the Iwadare / Yamada team and I'm hoping they return. Not sure who I would pick to replace them at the moment...

If we're talking about returning candidates, then Masakazu Sugimori might be a sound choice.  It'd be interesting to see the kinds of Gyakuten songs he can come up with after such series benchmarks like Suspense, the original 2001 Pursuit ~ Cornered, and the Turnabout Sisters, Gumshoe, and Steel Samurai themes.
 
Has anyone heard his work on Ghost Trick yet, by the way?

EDIT: According to Famitsu, Iwadare is indeed returning as music composer.

I've heard his work on Ghost Trick.

The main theme, and the [action]music while the main character is possessing/manipulating things is good.  But the music during the cut scenes or story expositions doesn't stand out beyond that.  There are a lot of characters and a lot of places to visit so there are lots of music cues.
The game's story is complex and engaging, so the music does do its job in aiding to the mystery of things. There are some tracks that you will think them a copy of a GS theme.

Surprised to hear they're making AAI: ME2.
That will be great to play!

What would you want to see in GS5?

Last edited by Crystal (Sep 10, 2010)

Interesting! Sugimori completely slipped my mind. It would definitely be neat to see him return to the Ace Attorney series. Personally though, I'd like for him to work on GS5. If Gyakuten Kenji is going to continue for another game or two, then I'd like for it to continue developing its own sound. On the other hand, I thought that GS4 was rather disappointing musically* and I think that Sugimori could really turn things around (see what I did there?) by heading up the next installment.

I enjoyed GS5 as a game, but I think there are still some loose ends that need to be tied up and some characters that could use development. That's what I'd like to see in GS5. I don't want an attempt at a finale for the original Ace Attorney series, I want to see a new cast of characters carry on the tradition. I think of GS4 as a standalone, transitional game. Now I want a second trilogy with Apollo at the helm and perhaps Phoenix as a mentor. I think something like that would be fun!

* I didn't think the music in GS4 was bad, but I did feel that it came up short compared to the previous 3 Ace Attorney games. There were some great character themes, but the courtroom music was weak and the entire score just seemed to be missing something...

GK2 is this far along already? Dang! That's good news though as I can't get enough Ace Attorney. The trailer looks really promising! Can't wait to learn more.

I think what I'd like to see most* is a story involving mob wars. With the Cadaverinis in full swing at the time of T&T and Edgy 1, but completely supplanted by the Kitakis by the time of Apollo, I have to suspect something big went down between the clans at some point in-between. Hell, you even have a professional hitman on the scene, so why not tell this story now? Besides, Plum was my favorite one-shot character in AJ and I wouldn't mind seeing her again.

*OK, what I actually want most is a healthy dose of Ema and forensic gameplay, but by now you could assume that. I'm hoping what was intimated in Edgy 1's ending (i.e. Yatagarasu II with girls roughly Kay's age) shapes up the way I'd like.